At the Edge of the Curriculum: Why Performing Arts Still Matter
Let's Talk Teaching Podcast
Season 4 - Episode 3
3 August 2026
Performing arts are often the first subjects reduced in schools - yet for many students, they’re where confidence, creativity, connection and engagement are built in ways other learning environments often can’t replicate.
Transcript
Rebecca Cooper [00:00]: This podcast is recorded on the land of the Boon Wurrung people of the Eastern Kulin Nation.
Rebecca Cooper [00:05]: We'd like to pay our respect to Elders past and present and acknowledge that this land was stolen and never ceded. Welcome to Let's Talk Teaching, the podcast created by teachers for teachers.
Michelle Ludecke [00:20]: Definitely that collaboration, working with others, negotiating, sometimes giving way to to their ideas are life skills, they're employability skills. They're learning through that, not about that. And this is where the performing arts sit alongside all the other subjects.
Rebecca Cooper [00:39]: Creativity, confidence, and the ability to work with others are becoming just as critical as academic achievement. Yet in many schools, subjects like drama and dance are often the first to be cut.
Siobhan Judge [00:52]: I see, you know, my Year 9s, same with my Year 10s, and so often they just don't think it's for them for some reason. They think, "Oh, I like dance, but I'm not, like, an amazing dancer," or, "My parents want me to be a lawyer," or whatever it is, and they don't see that subject as leading them to that.
Rebecca Cooper [01:09]: Today we're exploring the role of performing arts in schools and what they offer students, teachers, and the broader school community.
Michelle Ludecke [01:17]: Once other staff could see how engaged the students were. And we had a lot of attendance issues at that school, but suddenly you've got 120 students wanting to come to school. You know, everyone benefits from that sort of engagement of students.
Siobhan Judge [01:34]: Some of the best learning they'll get in a performing arts classroom is that— I don't want to sound corny, you know, it's the journey, but it's about, yeah, learning alongside others. And reflecting on your learning continually. And at the end of that, you get something you're really proud of.
But it's all those skills along the way.
Rebecca Cooper [01:55]: I'm Associate Professor Rebecca Cooper, Assistant Dean of Initial Teacher Education at Monash University's Faculty of Education. Each episode, we bring together education experts and alumni to unpack real challenges in the classroom. With insights you can apply in your own teaching practice.
Joining me today is Dr. Michelle Ludeke, a senior lecturer at Monash University whose work spans arts and education research, and Siobhan Judge, performing arts and English teacher and acting inclusion learning specialist.
Rebecca Cooper [02:29]: Welcome, Michelle and Siobhan, and thank you so much for joining me. Michelle, there's often strong support for the arts in principle, but in practice, they can often be the first subjects to be reduced or even sidelined. What's happening in schools right now when it comes to performing arts education?
Michelle Ludecke [02:47]: I see a lot of frustrated performing arts teachers who are getting low numbers at the VCE level, and that has a trickle-down effect. So if there's low visibility of the arts at the top end of secondary school, then students are less likely to see that as a viable option and more likely to see extracurricular arts,
and particularly performing arts, as a way around choosing an elective, a drama or dance elective or something like that beyond, you know, whatever might be a compulsory year. And I also think there's a bottom-up issue, which is our primary teachers are hesitant to teach dance in particular and drama.
They certainly teach, they do a good job of teaching through play, but if their hesitancy shapes what they teach and how they teach, and so students often, I feel, get less of an opportunity to explore in, through, and about the arts and performing arts in particular alongside all these other subjects because it is, you know, the whole point of the arts in the curriculum is to enhance
students' experience of education, not to compete with other subjects or anything like that.
Siobhan Judge [04:22]: Yeah, I mean, that last sentiment, I suppose, is something that Michelle spoke a lot about when I was studying at Monash in the drama education units and this idea that, yeah, performing arts needs to work alongside other subjects. It's interesting in my context where my school has a lot of offerings in performing arts, and we do offer dance as a core subject at Year 8.
So in theory, that would increase your VCE numbers, right? But we get to VCE and we're having combined Year 11 and 12 dance classes, so about, in a good year, about 20 students total, which is fantastic.
But considering, you know, you think, oh, the remedy to the issue is going to be bringing in dance at a junior level, but that doesn't seem to have the same, the outcome that you would expect. And I think in my context, it's mostly because dance and drama and music are perhaps seen as less academic subjects, unfortunately.
And there's a lot of pressure in my context for kids to get into uni, achieve highly. They're concerned with scaling, they're concerned with ATAR. So the art subjects are often the first to go when they're selecting VCE subjects.
Rebecca Cooper [05:33]: So when you have those, those low numbers at the top, what's the impact on the students and sort of the school community? I mean, you've raised one, which is the sort of combining of the classes, but what's the impact there?
Siobhan Judge [05:48]: I feel like they miss out on breadth in VCE, at least in my experience. I'm not currently teaching VCE, but I see, you know, my Year 9s, giving them advice like, what are you going to pick next year? You're going to accelerate? Are you going to do Year 10 dance? Or same with my Year 10s. And so often they just don't think it's for them for some reason.
They think, oh, I like dance, but I'm not like an amazing dancer, or my parents want— I want to be a lawyer, or my parents want me to be a lawyer, or whatever it is. And they don't see that subject as leading them to that. And yeah, the other consideration is that, you know, oftentimes the kids at our school do really well in these subjects.
So it's interesting they're having a disconnect between the actual real results and their perceived results, I suppose.
Michelle Ludecke [06:32]: And there's those two things— parents and perception. Dance is continually perceived as an elite, white, middle-class, female subject, and students gain that perception through seeing students who have been studying dance outside of school since they could you know, go to kinder.
And that's not dance education, that's elite dance, right? But they're the students that are doing well in VCE. And that, again, that visibility makes it so that students who are looking up to those elite dancers are going, that's not for me, I can't do that, I can't see myself in that, nor can the parents.
And So the parents would go, you can do dance outside of school. Yeah. No one says you can do geography outside of school, right? So I mean, imagine geography club. That'd be so cool. And how good would their geography scores be if all the students were doing geography?
But it's often when you get to that rationalization stage, even if students do well, the parents will often step in and go, ah, but you know, you can you dance, your fun subject. You can do the musical, or you can keep doing dance at your ballet school, or that sort of thing.
Rebecca Cooper [07:56]: So then, Michelle, what is dance education?
Michelle Ludecke [07:59]: Yeah, it's learning in, through, and about dance. So the cornerstones of performing arts subjects are doing, making, responding, analysing, reflecting, that sort of thing.
Whereas your elite dancer is performing, training, skilling, performing, certainly creating and all that sort of thing. But in education, it's learning through your body, and that's where dance and drama sit alongside all your other subjects where you learn in different ways in different subjects.
And if you take away that embodied learning, so you're not doing dance or drama, where your body is the medium of expression, not a musical instrument, not your pen, not your thoughts, you know, that sort of thing.
So it's through your body, you have this visceral experience. Then where's the balance in our education system? That's my big question.
Rebecca Cooper [09:15]: So then what are the skills? What are the takeaways from a performing arts education?
Michelle Ludecke [09:23]: I'll talk about one of my favourite activities that I used to do with my Year 8s the week before parent-teacher conferences, and I now do it with my drama classes here at uni, which is a parent-teacher conference role play. Instantly you can picture the drama, right?
Because it's 5 to 10 minutes, it's a time frame, it's got this sort of inbuilt potential conflict or contrast. We set it up, there's a parent and a student on one side of the table and a teacher and sometimes the leading teacher on the other side of the table.
I give a scenario, I say, "You've got 5 minutes," and they play it out. In schools, students just love to play their parents. It's hilarious. And it was good preparation for me as a teacher pre-parent-teacher conference to get an idea of what their parents might look like.
But here at uni, and I was just talking to someone from my classroom last year who said it was one of the most powerful things that she'd experienced because it gave her not only a deeper understanding of how to teach role play to her potential drama students, but also it gave her practice in a parent-teacher conference in a safe simulated environment.
And so the layers of learning that come through what is seemingly just a fun bit of parent-teacher conflict— like all the scenarios were conflicted— is actually a really good example of what the core aspect of the performing arts is.
Rebecca Cooper [11:02]: Do students need to take risks in a drama space? Is that all part of it? Is that something they sort of have to do to really benefit from it?
Siobhan Judge [11:11]: Yeah, I'm nodding enthusiastically. Yeah, I'm thinking about my current class. I suppose if you're talking about what is the, you know, what is the key learning, I think confidence might not be the best word, but I think that encapsulates this idea of being able to take risks.
And then, you know, the teacher's role is to make that safe for the class. And I've got such a diverse little group here, my Year 9s. And they— we had a class on Friday where a bunch of them were on excursions, and I had 7 of them, and we just had the most fun class.
And they kept saying to me every time they saw me this week, Miss Judge, that was the best class ever. And I think it's because they all felt even safer because there were only 7 of them, which I know is not a solution. But it was just this— I've been having a lot of thoughts about, yeah, what was it about that class that they loved so much?
And I think they just felt free to be themselves because they weren't restricting or changing their creative offers or risks because it was such a small class.
Michelle Ludecke [12:13]: What were you doing with them?
Siobhan Judge [12:14]: We basically just played Thank God You're Here for an hour and they wanted to play Bus Stop and things we hadn't done yet. So I was like, okay, fine. Fine. And then, yeah, they were just loving life. And it was a real mix. Like, they weren't all friends, so they were from all different friendship groups, and they were just going for it and supporting each other.
And it was wonderful.
Michelle Ludecke [12:33]: And the improvisation, like, you know, to an outsider, improvisation, like, if you watch Thank God You're Here, you think, oh, look at these people just getting up and making it up on the spot. But there are so many rules, and as our Vice-Chancellor likes to say, guardrails around that, and you have to teach the students.
All of those before they can go off and have the best class of their life. And that is where you're sort of mitigating risk, but you're preparing them for the risk as well. So you're saying there are rules, and these are the rules of the game, and here are some backup sort of things that you can pull out of your pocket, and now go for it.
And it's over to them, and they are the leaders. In the activity. And I think that's another— that's a risk for us as a teacher, right? That's another aspect of risk and reward is that we give over to them and just kind of nudge them around.
And that can be very risky. So we have to know when to jump in and when to pull them back and when to stop and have a conversation and restart and and those sorts of things.
Rebecca Cooper [13:45]: So you're describing dance and drama sort of spaces, classrooms as spaces where creativity can thrive, collaboration can thrive. You said confidence before. So what makes these classrooms such powerful spaces, particularly for perhaps for kids of really different abilities?
What's making that so powerful for them?
Siobhan Judge [14:08]: I think one of the things is, I'm thinking junior level, you know, the writing and reading demands are reduced. So kids who may have learning difficulties, a lot of those barriers that are in a lot of their other classes are taken away. So they have an opportunity, as long as they're still supported by the teacher, to have success and to find other ways of expressing themselves that's not, you know, through writing like you touched on before.
Michelle Ludecke [14:36]: Yeah. Yeah. And no, that's a really good point. And some would say the classroom itself is kind of a magical space, but you don't— like the dance or drama room, but you don't have to have a fantastic room with lights and staging and all that sort of stuff to make that happen.
So it's about signalling this is a different classroom. To sitting or standing behind a desk or being out on the oval or, you know, I mean, all the classrooms are different.
Students know when they walk into a class, they know the rules for that teacher and for that classroom. But creating that sort of special space where there's a routine perhaps to create some safety.
So we start in a circle, And even if we just tokenistically start in a circle and then I go, "Nope, we all have to sit down now." So they know how to enter that space and be present in that space to give over to the task that's gonna come at them.
And it's less predictable, I think, than other classes that I've taught. I've taught, you know, English and health and media and stuff like that. And the same students act differently when they're in the performing arts room to when they're in another room.
Yeah.
Rebecca Cooper [16:06]: You said before that a lot of schools are starting to really rely on extracurricular opportunities for performing arts, drama, dance, or the school production or something like that, particularly where they're seeing the numbers reduce at a higher level.
What are the benefits and limitations of that sort of model.
Michelle Ludecke [16:29]: Extracurricular is about performance. It's about the aesthetic. It's still about learning, but the end result is a production. And the end result in a performing arts classroom is an embodied experience.
Siobhan Judge [16:46]: I think, yeah, I agree with everything from my perspective. I ran the extracurricular dance program at my school for the last 2 years. And I think the biggest benefit from running that program, it's now built up to 170 students from about 120, I think, when I started.
So I think those sort of pre-COVID numbers are building up again, which is fantastic. But it's always the kind of kids that they have access to dance. They may not have gone to a dance school. Maybe they feel like that's too intimidating of a space and they might do the core subject in Year 8, which is once a week.
For half the year, and then they have this extracurricular class where they have access to dance and they're learning that dance is for everyone on top of what we offer at the school, which I think is a huge benefit.
Rebecca Cooper [17:34]: Why do you think the numbers are so big?
Siobhan Judge [17:36]: I think it's trendy, maybe, partially. They do commercial jazz, so it's what they're watching a lot of in music videos and, you know, the school version of it. And I think it's I don't know.
Michelle Ludecke [17:51]: They—
Siobhan Judge [17:52]: yeah, I'm seeing like an identity shift in some ways. Like, we're talking about this identity of what a dancer is in a school, and when you get to that VCE level, at least in my school, it tends to be those kids who are training at a more elite level. But the extracurricular program is really opened up to all sorts of kids.
They don't have any barriers. They just bring their school bag from period 4 straight to the dance studio, and their friend is there. So I can't quite put my finger on what it is, but Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah.
Rebecca Cooper [18:18]: So if you're running it in that extracurricular way, for a lot of staff that means carrying a bit of an additional load in, in the work that they're sort of, that they're taking on and that they're doing. Is this something that shows up in your work, Siobhan?
Siobhan Judge [18:34]: Yes.
Rebecca Cooper [18:35]: In what ways?
Siobhan Judge [18:37]: I mean, in that particular role, it was being on site 7:15 in the morning but that's outside of my work hours. But that's just what would happen in this role. I'm in a government school, so there was a, like, a special payment for the role, but it wasn't hour for hour.
So yeah, there's a lot of over and above that. I don't know, it's— I think when the team— there's veteran teachers who are doing it, it's how it's always been. I come in as a new teacher, I go, okay, I guess that's how it is, and I do it as well.
And it's just part of the fabric of performing arts faculties in a way.
Michelle Ludecke [19:13]: Yeah, it's hard work. It's great when you're in a school that has a really strong tradition of everybody getting involved and it just rolls on. So I've worked in a number of different schools and one of those schools that I worked in, I could see how effective all the extra hours could be in the end result, the aesthetic.
And everybody had their roles and pretty much every staff member in the school did something, which was amazing. But when you're starting something from scratch, it can be a real uphill battle for some teachers who are the only performing arts teacher in the school and they want to start a club or, you know, a little musical or Start small, people.
You know, it can be a very, very difficult thing to navigate, especially as a beginning teacher, where your passion can often override your sensibility and you can become quite exhausted and sometimes a little angry because, you know, if you do it for a number of years, then it becomes an expectation of
the school. And so you've started something from your own sweat and just for the joy of seeing students have a great time. But 5 years down the track, the principal's going, so what's next year's musical?
Oh, I don't know about that. Yeah, can we rework that? And I think you should do it with the boys' school because, you know, 'That'd be great publicity.' And you go, 'Hang on, am I getting paid for this?' So that can be a really difficult space for some teachers to navigate.
Rebecca Cooper [21:08]: So then what would you wish perhaps school leaders or other people in the school community understood about performing arts and the school production or something? What do you wish they just could understand about it?
Michelle Ludecke [21:21]: I wish they would see it from the student's perspective rather than from their perspective, which is totally understandable, but from running the school, advertising the school, you know, making the school attractive to boost their enrolments and viability and all of that sort of stuff, which is hard because that's very their job.
But at schools where I have seen the most success, the principal was involved and would come to rehearsals and would have a job towards the production. And that's a really great lesson for everybody.
It's like you forget— I forget what it's like to be in a school or to be a beginning teacher. I need to remind myself by listening and participating and, you know, things like that. So I think that's probably my top tip.
Get involved.
Rebecca Cooper [22:26]: Siobhan, what do you wish your colleagues knew?
Siobhan Judge [22:29]: Yeah, thinking along the same lines that anyone can and could be involved. They don't have to teach performing arts. So yeah, I think just there's so many people in schools who have performing arts backgrounds and they may end up teaching other subject areas. And they— I don't know, it's a lot of extra work, so I understand why people don't want to.
A lot of it is volunteering.
Michelle Ludecke [22:49]: But it's a great way to find out. I remember at one of the schools I taught at, and I was actually the VIT mentor to— we had 7 beginning teachers that year, and they were all kind of interested in getting involved.
And they were all on contracts, by the way, so, you know, there's a performativity element to that. But learning about the special skills of staff members like, oh, so-and-so does karate and so-and-so plays the flute.
And, you know, so you can really draw on other expertise and parents and carers as well. You know, having a community with those extracurricular activities helps to sustain it so that your not just running it on your own.
Yeah.
Rebecca Cooper [23:44]: You talk about the parents and carers and the whole community, and you mentioned before COVID and the fact that this is extracurricular.
Michelle Ludecke [23:54]: I think I sort of know the answer, but what happened to performing arts during COVID During the pandemic, I often would say to people, you know, in 10 years' time, what are you gonna look back on and, and say that you did to sort of make a change? And And, you know, I resisted this, let's get back to normal.
But in terms of the performing arts, can we just get back to normal, right? Can we just get back to a theatre and kids backstage, like all that other learning and fun? So it might be extracurricular, but it's still educational.
Rebecca Cooper [24:30]: Are you finding a change post-pandemic, Siobhan?
Siobhan Judge [24:34]: Well, I was, yeah, I started my degree in 2020. So I was just trying to think of the timeline of everything. So I was a dance teacher in like dance studios before I started studying. So all of that went online. I lost a lot of work, which is sort of what led me to study teaching actually, which is, you know, another story.
But I guess the colleagues that I work with are very experienced and they will sort of say the phrase like pre-COVID numbers is sort of a phrase that comes up. They think, oh, we're kind of around our pre-COVID numbers. They mean enrollments-wise in typically in extracurricular, but it also means, yeah, who's choosing the subjects?
Because a lot of kids stopped their extracurricular, then they weren't considering the subjects as well as particularly, you know, in subjects like music where you need to be studying an instrument or, you know, interested in music in some way to do those electives.
So I think the numbers must have been decimated because everyone says pre-COVID numbers, things like that.
Michelle Ludecke [25:33]: Yeah. Yeah.
Rebecca Cooper [25:34]: And what advice did those— you said you got some really experienced teachers that you're working with. What advice have they given to you about being a teacher in the performing arts?
Michelle Ludecke [25:44]: It's so interesting.
Siobhan Judge [25:44]: I can't think of particular advice. I think just working with them, I learn about, you know, their warmth and that they're always putting the students like at the centre of everything.
And I think no one's ever said that to me. They're like, I've got some advice for you. So I think you just learn by working with them and observing them. And that seems to be their approach is always thinking about the students first, which is huge.
Michelle Ludecke [26:15]: Yeah, it's so important because my first year of teaching, I did an Ibsen play called Ghosts, which is this play about, you know, this guy gets syphilis and it's like, it's all these white middle-class interior drama sort of stuff at a school, at a co-ed government secondary school that had 70 different nationalities.
It had the most multicultural student base and And my partner, who was a teacher at that school, it's where we met, said to me, "Can you please remember this story and bring it up?" 'Cause he was sitting there in the audience biting his hand to stop himself from laughing at the sort of nonsensical, you
know, juxtaposition of these really multicultural students who were trying really, really hard to do this play that had nothing to do with their lives. And it really taught me to put my students first and understand what they want to do.
And that is when you get really good performing arts— when they're doing something that they're really passionate about or excited about or want to learn about, whether it's in class or outside of class.
Yeah.
Rebecca Cooper [27:46]: So if that's when you're getting the really sort of passion students, and either of you are welcome to jump on this question, but what would a school look like if performing arts was genuinely valued as central to student learning?
Michelle Ludecke [28:01]: So I've worked at one of those schools and there was a government school, select entry government school where students could audition to come to the school. And that looks like a massive department.
And it looks also like a whole lot of students who have something in common. Not every school is going to have that. But having that commonality, that ability to build a community around a shared experience that is an embodied experience is really powerful.
And that looks like happy students.
Siobhan Judge [28:48]: I mean, it's hard to pinpoint exactly, and it's in a context like where Michelle has worked where that's the whole school's thing. The thing that popped into my head was that would have to be a whole school approach to achieve that. Whether it becomes an entirely performing arts-based school, I don't think it has to be at that point, but I think it needs to be considered.
Like, you need to zoom out, I suppose, to be able to embed— I don't know if that's the right word— but embed performing arts into the school's structure of subjects. So my school does a very good job of this in terms of, yeah, having offerings at all different levels, and they do that for a lot of subjects.
So everything's pretty much elective-based in Year 9 and 10, so the kids get to pick a huge range of subjects. So I mean, there's pros and cons to that, I suppose. Then performing arts isn't mandated at that level, but it's offered, so we're very lucky that the kids have that opportunity.
So I suppose if more schools were able to do that, that would be great. But then, like you said, large faculties, having people who have the training in those areas is obviously another barrier.
Michelle Ludecke [29:59]: I think also, you know, so at my first school where we didn't have a lot of performing arts, especially after the disaster of Ipsen, but after that, that was back in the day when there was Rock of Steadford and that was right up their alley.
And once other staff could see how engaged the students were— and we had a lot of attendance issues at that school, but suddenly you've got 120 students wanting to come to school because it's Rock Stepper and rehearsal day— then the value starts to build and they can see the benefits of having these activities on their own classes because students are happier,
they're attending, that increases their learning. So everybody benefits. It's not just having, you know, a group of students who are all having a fantastic time. You know, everyone benefits from that sort of happiness of students, engagement of students.
Siobhan Judge [31:10]: Mm.
Rebecca Cooper [31:11]: What are the benefits of the sorts of skills that we know kids can develop when they're in a performing arts classroom?
Michelle Ludecke [31:20]: Yeah, definitely that collaboration, working with others, negotiating, sometimes giving way to their ideas, life skills, their employability skills. They're learning through that, not about that.
So you can tell a student, "You have to learn how to work in a group," or you can get them to learn in a group or improvise in a group, or like your 7 students having a great time playing Thank God You're Here.
So definitely, and this is where the performing arts sit alongside all the other subjects. So if you're writing an essay, I know this is— I'm sorry, English people, I'm not dissing your subject at all, but it's an individual endeavor.
Okay. And I know you do group work and all that sort of thing, but the student succeeds or doesn't succeed on the page. It's a lower stake than trying something in or with a group.
And that creates more powerful learning experiences that stay with you for longer, I think. Yeah.
Siobhan Judge [32:42]: And they learn about that the process and the process of creating and the process of learning and those two things running alongside each other always is the most important part of learning. And I think sometimes that's where our school system can be challenging for kids because it's all about— it's not all about, but it can feel I feel like for them it's all about assessments and eventually ATAR and grades.
And I think some of the best learning they'll get in a performing arts classroom is that— I don't want to sound corny, you know, it's the journey, but it's about learning alongside others and reflecting on your learning continually. And at the end of that, you get something you're really proud of, but it's all those skills along the way.
Michelle Ludecke [33:27]: And even, you know how students can sometimes, they'll do a really successful sort of performance or end result, but then they'll go, "Oh, and remember that mistake and how we overcame that mistake?" And so it's building resilience in themselves, but also as a group.
So, you know, mistakes are okay. They're just like, we just need to keep going. Whereas, you know, in a more cerebral subject, you get to erase your mistake and start over. So in the performing arts, you have to move through the mistake.
And that really is character building, I think.
Rebecca Cooper [34:09]: I'm hearing a sort of sense of generative creativity that's sort of quite mobile amongst a group of students. Within a space. Is creativity playing a big role here?
Siobhan Judge [34:22]: Definitely.
Michelle Ludecke [34:23]: Like, yeah, real creativity, not just, I'm just being creative. Yeah. Like creativity. I don't know how to emphasize that more.
Siobhan Judge [34:34]: Yeah. And I think, I mean, as a teacher, I think when I realize, you know, this subject and these classes are building their creativity is when they do things that I haven't taught them. And that's when I realize, oh, like There's giving them, you know, like we talked about with improvisation, giving them— what's it— guardrails.
And you're giving them the prior knowledge that they need. And then they apply their life experience, their prior knowledge that wasn't in my classroom necessarily. And they create something that I haven't taught them. And that's super exciting.
Rebecca Cooper [35:08]: So they surprise you?
Siobhan Judge [35:09]: Yeah, always.
Michelle Ludecke [35:11]: Sometimes shock.
Siobhan Judge [35:13]: Yeah, sometimes not good surprise. No, usually good surprise. Yep.
Rebecca Cooper [35:18]: So then if you're a teacher listening to this and you really want to advocate for performing arts in your school, what's a really good first step? Where do you start?
Siobhan Judge [35:28]: I think you need advocates with you. I think you need to find your like-minded people in your school, whether they're in that faculty or not. And I think start talking to them and then take it up where you need to take it to leadership and see if you can start a club or an extracurricular activity potentially and start from there.
Michelle Ludecke [35:52]: Yeah.
Siobhan Judge [35:52]: What do you think?
Michelle Ludecke [35:54]: I totally agree. There's not one way, but what I learned over time was actually give it over to the students. So get a student committee and get them to advocate, get them to lead the activities.
They've got roles. So Rockerstedford, for example, Year 10 and 11 students would be— there would be a team of 12. They'd have to apply and then they choose everything, run everything. I'm just booking rooms and cracking the whip every now and then, you know, basically, and dealing with the budget.
Giving them the agency creates something more authentic and student-centered, but also Demonstrates to the whole school community what can be achieved by a bunch of 16-year-olds, you know, so exciting.
Siobhan Judge [36:46]: It sort of happened at our school last year because the musical is every other year and the kids ran like a student-led cabaret sort of musical night. And it was, yeah, exactly what you were talking about.
I was just thinking, oh yeah, all the things that they did, they the team ended up kind of handing over to the kids and it worked out perfectly for everyone. And now they're extra jazzed about the musical this year and they're talking about Cabaret last year and all that sort of stuff. So yeah, there's a whole new cohort of kids probably auditioning for the musical that might have not been brave enough to unless they'd done the student-led version last year.
Michelle Ludecke [37:26]: And they know what they're doing, right? Like, they really know what they're doing, like way more than I do. So you know, why should they be restricted to what I want to do? Like, really?
Rebecca Cooper [37:37]: Yeah, that's why I end up with Ibsen.
Michelle Ludecke [37:38]: Exactly.
Rebecca Cooper [37:41]: Well, thank you both so much for a really great discussion about just the possibilities that come with embracing performing arts as part of the school curriculum and having it not sit on the edge so that the impact of it can just reach well beyond the kids, their school, the community, and well into their future life.
For many, many students, this is where the confidence is built, where they take risks and where learning becomes something they actually want to be part of.
Rebecca Cooper [38:12]: It's also clear just how much these programs rely on passionate teachers, often working outside of the classroom and navigating shifting priorities to keep performing arts going. There's a real need to be clearer about their place in education, not by comparing them to other subjects, but by recognising what they offer that's different, and just as importantly, what it takes to support the teachers making that possible.
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